: Subject: Re: Crossing the Abyss in a GD ritual style! : Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:24:40 GMT : Lines: 43
: X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mbha.demon.co.uk : X-Mail2News-Path: mbha.demon.co.uk : : : : > I normally make a point of not posting conversations to alt.magick, but your : > point is of particular interest, so I hope you will forgive my chiming in at : > this point. That is not to imply or otherwise abything about grades or : > adeptship - at the end of the day these things are rarely quantifiable. : > There are no valid 2nd Order ceremonies of the Golden Dawn. The Order : > rituals as polished by the Stella Matutina and published by Regardie end at : > 5=6. To my knowledge nothing else exists except a draft of a 6=5 ceremony. : > : > The Outer Order grade ceremonies are elemental in nature, and on entry to the : > 2nd Order, the student is working with the Magic of Light, so you are right, : > there is a difference in emphasis, but without seeing what you have seen in : > respect of 2nd order ceremonial I cannot comment on it's worth. : > : > I also saw a reference to the Dark Night of the Soul in this discussion and I : > can tell you that this is not equivalent to any act of crossing the abyss : > (whatever that really means). I do not recall any formal exposition : > within the Golden Dawn about crossing the abyss; so far as I know, the concept : > originated in various of the Dennis Wheatley books and has no merit for the student : > except as a matter of theory. That is not to say that the Dark Night of the : > Soul has no Kabbalistic correspondences, in fact there are fairly close : > correspondences which I will be happy to speak about elsewhere if you wish. : > : > As to the grades above 7=4, I am very clear that they have little merit, : > except as matters of function and rank within the Temple. One of the : > great and saddest hoaxes perpetrated on the student by some organisations is : > the chase for grades. Again, I can speak at more length elsewhere if you : > wish. : : : Hi Dave, : but is instead the 'absence of Malkuth'. If this be true, as a point of : discussion if nought else, could the transition to the Supernals be more : than a straight path journey? Could the transition be, perhaps, at right : angles to the 'reality' of the other paths below into a new direction or : dimension other than linear thinking? I admit to be feeling my way here : in a somewhat tentative manner but I thought that it might be worth a bit : of discussion. Perhaps I ought to sign of as 'Choronzon'
: but I'll just use: : Michael
Greetings Michael,
One of the drawbacks of a linear glyph such as the Otz Chiim is that it encourages a 'straight line' concept of the relationships between the Sephiroth. In fact, progression doesn't happen in this rather simplified way, so you are quite right. However, linear thought is sometimes useful for an initial understanding of the principles involved. Something to build upon.
Choronzon. An interesting choice of name. The demon is in fact symbolic of the destruction of the persona, a metaphor for the Abyss.
The proposition I take issue with in the original post is that there is a correlation between the iniatory grade and the experience attributed to the grade (the spiritual symbolism of the grade). Proof of the pudding is in the people who claim (or boast) grades. I recently saw someone whose actual understanding of ceremonial magic appears to be quite limited boasting 8=3 (albeit quite subtly). It is foolish to equate the awarding (as opposed to achieving) any grade with achieving the spiritual significance of the grade. For this reason, 8=3 doesn't necessarily have any real meaning, nor 9=2 nor 10=1 (I would argue). It depends on the nature of the Lodge/Order. Most are degree mills in my experience; knowledge and development are not conferrable.
Did I catch your line of thought or was I wide of the mark?
